Jumping Fences, Breaking Maidens, and Talking Shop

By Mackenzie Pfeiffer

Jack Fisher is a Hall of Famer, a stats machine, and the winningest trainer in American steeplechasing. But for all his hardware and headlines, he’s still something of a mystery to the average racing fan – the kind of guy you’ve definitely heard of, but might not have heard from.

While he’s best known for jumpers, don’t sleep on his flat runners – they hit just as hard. So we hopped in the truck for a day of racing, some road talk, and a few Diet Cokes. Spoiler alert: Jack sent out Vintage Year, a 17-1 maiden special weight winner, that very day.

Mackenzie Pfeiffer: Why do you think your horses tend to hold their form when switching from jump racing back to the flat?

Jack Fisher: I think I start off with a pretty good product. The horses I buy or run on the flat were already decent before I got them. All I’ve really done is sweeten them up a bit. Horses that stay on the track year-round can get sour. It’s just about freshening them up – keeping them happy.

MP: What makes your program unique when it comes to developing horses?

JF: I used to love buying horses from Woodbine – they’d be turned out for the winter, and that kept them happy. Horses aren’t meant to go 365 days a year. They need at least 100 days off. For my jumpers, if they run in the spring and summer, I skip the fall. Or I’ll take Saratoga off – one or the other. They need that break. And they like it.

MP: Lately, you’ve been running more horses on the flat. Is that just reflective of your barn?

JF: Yes, I’ve got more horses now – too many to run all over fences. What else can I do with them? I can’t run all seven maidens in the same race.

MP: Is it helpful to use flat races in developing your younger horses?

JF: Definitely. Take Vintage Year – still a maiden on the flat, but last year he ran third at Colonial behind a horse that went on to win three straight, two of them graded stakes. The runner-up just won a Grade 2 at Keeneland. That turned out to be a strong race. He should break his maiden soon. Scorpius is another one. He’s only three. He wasn’t ready to win early on, but he’s improving. There aren’t any jump races for him until fall – so what else am I supposed to do?

MP: Do you think it matters whether a horse “knows how to win”? Does that influence whether you keep them on the flat or switch to jumps?

JF: No, I don’t think the winning part matters that much. Very few horses actually know when they’ve won. Snap Decision does – he knows. But most? They either don’t know or don’t care.

MP: So it’s more about heart and drive than “learning to win”?

JF: Exactly.

MP: In your mind, what makes a good horse?

JF: Numbers. It’s about having a lot of horses and sorting through them to find the right ones. Flat trainers would say the same thing. Look at Chad Brown – he has so many expensive horses. That’s what makes a good trainer: good stock and the ability to keep replenishing the barn.

MP: Beyond great owners, horses, and your team – what else has been key to your success?

JF: The training facility, definitely. I think mine’s a good one. Compare me to the guy down the street training out of a farm with apple trees and no real track. I used to burn through 1,000 acres a year on other people’s land until I put in my own track. When the ground gets hard in the summer, you can’t just change surfaces – going to Pimlico or Laurel sporadically didn’t work for us.

MP: So consistency of surface year-round is a big factor?

JF: Exactly. They’re used to it. I wouldn’t run on the main track for an off-the-turf race anymore. They’re not training on it, so they’re not used to it. If they were, that’d be different.

MP: How do you plan travel for your horses, especially since you ship for every race?

JF: If it’s over five hours, I like to go a couple of days ahead. Colonial is the furthest we’ll go for a same-day trip. Honestly, I think it’s better to ship the same day – they eat well at home, stay in their routine.

MP: You were a successful rider before training. Did you always expect to end up here?

JF: Yes. Riding was just part of the deal. If I trained the horse, I rode it. If I rode it, I trained it. I didn’t ride outside horses. As a timber rider, I was okay. Hurdles, I sucked. I just think I wasn’t all that talented. I remember riders who weren’t great at a fence but had great minds and could really think. Back in the day, jockeys had to think more. We’ve kind of dumbed it down now.

MP: Do you think the dynamics of jump races have changed?

JF: Yes, especially since they started removing the last fence on flat tracks. Now it’s just follow the flags and let them run the last half or three-eighths. The horses are faster now, too. We don’t buy the cheap ones and try to make them good – we just buy faster horses. That’s made it harder for smaller outfits.

MP: How does horse selection differ in the U.S. versus Europe?

JF: I prefer buying here. The form’s different, the ground is really different. If I’ve got a bad jumper, I can run him back on the flat. Take Romp – not a good jumper, so I ran him back on the flat, and lost him for $25,000. That was great. He went on to win two more on the flat. If he’d been bred as a European jumper, we’d have lost $50,000. Owners don’t take that as well.

MP: Let’s shift gears. If you could be a pro in another sport, regardless of skill, what would it be?

JF: Something with cars. That looks like fun—probably F1… or demolition derby.

MP: Let’s give some love to timber racing. You bought Keys Discount for your mother last spring – he’s been a rising star. What drew you to him?

JF: My mom was looking to add to her stable, and I was listening to Ann Miller talk about how he’d won four in a row. I watched him – he jumped well, did everything well – so I thought, what the hell. Same goes for timber horses: it’s about numbers. There are others I thought would be better. But Keys Discount just is. It never makes sense except for Schoodic. He made sense. He was a pretty good hurdle horse.

MP: Let’s highlight a dual threat – flat and fences. Do you think Mission North is ready for stakes company on the flat?

JF: He’ll have to be. He’s working through the two-other-than now. After that, the next stop would be a Maryland-bred stake. Honestly, I think I could’ve managed him better. In hindsight, I should’ve tried more state-bred races.

MP: You’ve said you spend a lot of time reviewing your races. How are you at handicapping?

JF: Pretty good. Really good over fences, decent on the flat. I’d make more money over jumps, but I’d still be okay on the flat. But if I did bet, I’d probably go in for thousands – and come out poor.

MP: What are you looking forward to this year?

JF: I’d like to see Snap Decision continue to carry his form. Not that he’s lost it – that Iroquois race was tough, and he ran well. Abaan is a really good horse. But Zabeel shocked me in that race – he looked like the winner most of the way.

MP: You just got a photo showing the top 10 Saratoga trainers for graded stakes wins from 2021–2025. You’re on the list – with the highest ROI and win percentage. What does that mean to you?

JF: It’s a pretty cool list. Who would’ve though